guards, sawing and sanding

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10 years 2 days ago #9094 by DJ_
DJ_ replied the topic: Re:guards, sawing and sanding
Just a quick note to add to your post. My M7 came with a lower saw guard that is different from the one you show.

My guard has a one piece AL casting with a hinged clamp on top. There is no removable front cover on my guard. This guard can be slipped over a blade that is already mounted on the spindle. It is then rotated into position and the hinge clamp closed and tightened on the quill using the wrench.

I haven't seen another one like it, but my poor photo copy of the M7 owner's manual (obtained from Shopsmith) does have a picture of my one piece lower saw guard, it's fig 47. The old part number was 505705.

My father-in-laws gilmore M5 500 has the newer upper/lower guard setup, but I haven't looked into attaching it to the M7 just yet. However, I do think it would be possible to mount the clear upper guard to a homemade bracket that attaches to the 60s lower guard. I installed the newer guard upgrade kit on the old M5 when I rebuilt the green gilmore.

-DJ

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10 years 2 days ago #9097 by DPF
DPF replied the topic: Re:guards, sawing and sanding
Never realized the rack side differences there DJ. I don't have a MarkV so I never noticed that difference.

Interesting note on your lower guard. I think I have seen that in pictures somewhere. It must be exceedingly rare.

Keep me posted on your upper guard tests. I'm very interested in getting one of the newer style 500 uppers for the 7. I figured it would be a tricky mod as the mount piece wants to go where the back trunnion lock is on a 7. I did consider modding it so it mounted to the old style lower guard, the problem there is that it then is locked to the guard, not the table. You won't be able to raise or lower the table unless it's a sliding attachment of some sort. The old aluminum guard upper guard had this sliding setup. The guard slid up and down in the funky shaped splitter.

A better way to go may be to make a bracket that you mount to the table. It would mount by tapping holes into the back side of the table and screwing it on there. Maybe just a simple L shaped bracket.

-DPF

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10 years 2 days ago #9098 by DJ_
DJ_ replied the topic: Re:guards, sawing and sanding
Ah, I forgot about the sliding portion of the upper guards.

You are right, can't mount a newer clear upper guard on the older lower guard without some way of compensating for the table height. I'll have to think that one over some more.

I don't like how the newer guards attach to the table support frame like on my father-in-laws. I'd rather have a guard unit that attaches only to the quill leaving the table free to move/tilt without additional adjustments that need to be made to the upper guard.

Obviously, with the older system this adjustment was only made one time when first setting up. And as you've mentioned, there is the slot that allowed the upper guard to slide up and down to keep the cover on the table as the height/tilt is varied.

Something to think about. At least I can get the parts in my hands to look over without spending any more money :)

On a sad note, I just spent a bunch of time compiling a post on the Mark VII differences. I took too long to submit, however, and I was automatically logged out before posting. I think I've lost all the stuff I typed. Darn. Unless I can figure out how to recover my text, I'll have to try again some other time.

Note to self: compose long posts in a separate text editor first, then copy/paste into form window!!

-DJ

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10 years 2 days ago #9102 by DJ_
DJ_ replied the topic: Re:guards, sawing and sanding
DPF,

I've thought about the options for mounting a newer clear upper saw guard to the M7, so let me write these ideas up before I forget. Shoot some holes in these ideas if you can :)

One of the things that is different about the M7 table is that the pivot point for tilting the table is offset from the saw slot. I think this is designed that way so that adding the heavy extension table to the main table won't be such an unbalanced condition (relative to the pivot point). This is not the case on the M5 table. It's pivot point is centered with the saw slot.

However, having the table slot offset from the center line of the pivot point causes the slot to move in an arc as the table is tilted. I think this would make the newer mark V 500 mounting system difficult to accomplish on the M7 regardless of the fact that the rear trunnion lock is in the way.

On the M5, you only need to adjust the right/left position of the saw guard once to center it over the saw slot. The saw guard mounts to the table support casting which does not move as the table is tilted.

There is no convenient spot on the M7 table support for this style of mounting. A bracket would have to be made. But even if a bracket could be made, the guard would have to be adjustable in both left/right and (I think) up down to accommodate the saw slot arc as the table is tilted.

Your suggestion of mounting the upper guard to the table itself (centered with the saw slot) would work so long as the upper guard can be adjusted for table tilt (unless you only use it for 90 degree cuts).

The other option would be to mount the saw guard to the lower guard housing (like was done with the original setup) but somehow incorporate an additional height adjustment to accommodate table height movement and tilt angle. Perhaps a special slot can be used to accomplish this, just like the original saw guards? If it works, don't fix it :)

Perhaps you can use some nibblers to cut out the sides of an original 60s upper guard and glue on some clear Plexiglas to build a see through saw guard? Perhaps you can just glue up some Plexiglas to replace the original metal upper saw guard?

Well, I have a few months of rebuilding my M7 to think about this particular modification :)

One more thought: could the rear trunnion lock be removed and the whole table tilt locking mechanism be converted to the M5 510 setup? That way a single lever on the front of the machine would lock both front and back trunnions at the same time?

food for thought,

-DJ

PS: you did a great job on your M7 rebuild, did you use electrolysis on the way tubes to remove rust?

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9 years 11 months ago - 9 years 11 months ago #9253 by DPF
DPF replied the topic: Re:guards, sawing and sanding
Sorry for the late reply, I didn't see this post before.

Regarding the offset hinge point, I think that is the result of the 90 degree sweep in both directions. Since the tie bar has to be below the hinge points (and not offset on as on a V) to be able to turn the table into shaper mode. The tiebar would interfere with the blade/guard if it was in line with the slot. This is an issue.

This would also lend itself to the best method of attachment being to the back side of the table top itself (look to a 10ER guard type setup, it would be very similar if not a slightly modified version). I see this often on contractor type saws for their guards as well. Maybe fabricate a bracket/splitter with a flange that then has a screw thru it into a threaded hole in the back of the table. This way it stays aligned with the blade slot, it can be adjusted for bevels, and it moves up and down with the table. I'll look into it further and report back... someday :).

I'm not familiar with a 510 trunnion lock setup. I need to see how a single lever can lock front and back. I'll look at the exploded view to see.

As for my refurb, no I just used old fashioned elbow grease as with my 10ER tubes. The VII tubes weren't nearly as bad the ER's were. I think I used a ScotchBrite wheel, then a fine sandpaper, then steel wool, then polished them up with wheel polish to get them nice and bright.

-DPF
Last Edit: 9 years 11 months ago by DPF.

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9 years 10 months ago #9290 by DJ_
DJ_ replied the topic: Re:guards, sawing and sanding
DPF,

My last post in this thread was destroyed by the hacker.

I think I stated that I fully agree with your explanation that the hinge point is designed such that the table can pivot 90 degrees in both directions which allows for shaper mode on the Mark VII.

I think I also said that you could probably add a bracket to the rear trunnion mount using longer bolts. This bracket could then hold the upper guard and would not require modifying the table itself.

My suggestion that perhaps the mark VII could be converted to a 510 trunnion lock setup with one locking handle is probably bunk. Same reason, having a control rod for locking the rear trunnion would interfere with shaper mode. That's probably why the Mark VII has two separate tilt locking controls.

Let me add that I've found an original shop smith metal upper guard. I like how it mounts to the lower guard and doesn't require further alignment as the table is tilted. However, it seems to be jerky. I still think that the metal guard could be replaced with a homemade Plexiglas clear guard and perhaps there could be some Teflon pads added so that the motion won't be so jerky. But I'm still thinking about my future mods and upgrades while working on the switch circuit.

Anyway, I wanted to get a post in to see if we are truly back to normal on the forum.

-DJ

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